Remember, when you post be sure to be respectful of other TeeFury members- both artists and your fellow posters! Not sure what that means? Try reading TeeFury's Posting Guidelines. - Teevil
176 Comments
Remember, when you post be sure to be respectful of other TeeFury members- both artists and your fellow posters! Not sure what that means? Try reading TeeFury's Posting Guidelines. - Teevil
applesbananassaid 138 weeks ago
dang, that is intense.
Mattatyasaid 138 weeks ago
SleepyBanditsaid 138 weeks ago
leastsaid 138 weeks ago
Very cool.
Political statements.
Also visually appealing.
However, not my style xC
silvioislamesaid 138 weeks ago
heres to hoping for a dead bird!
sawbones84said 138 weeks ago
ghostofdavidsaid 138 weeks ago
OneAwaysaid 138 weeks ago
ry4nsm1thsaid 138 weeks ago
a7loftissaid 138 weeks ago
Kiarkusaid 138 weeks ago
scotttburnettsaid 138 weeks ago
Visual Singularitiessaid 138 weeks ago
aayjaysaid 138 weeks ago
leastsaid 138 weeks ago
The dell one is more angled, and notice the E is missing the "back" like the enron logo.
For comparison.
serpicosaid 138 weeks ago
e= enron
m= mcdonalds
o= target
c= coke
r= toys r us
a= aig
c= cnn
y= subway
neslersaid 138 weeks ago
stablercakesaid 138 weeks ago
BubbaNushsaid 138 weeks ago
SteveOramAsaid 138 weeks ago
nice design. nice idea.
now unload with your opinions!
Soccerfun88said 138 weeks ago
I don't understand how you could accuse the visualization of being overused.
@duchess; I'm not sure the author was picking companies that he/she considered "bad", I think they were just going for very popular big names that represent business and market.
If you have to completely explain this shirt to someone, they probably aren't going to care/understand either way.
suhleapsaid 138 weeks ago
jaysea420said 138 weeks ago
i would have rather seen the same concept but with the word 'capitalism'
either way though i dig the idea. Very cool!!
Gawdsaid 138 weeks ago
user1said 138 weeks ago
Soccerfun88said 138 weeks ago
I could be wrong, but I don't think it's meant to be THAT targeted (haha, Target, targeted... yeah, bed time).
axedmoonsaid 138 weeks ago
As for the side art being superior than the t-shirt, I think it's because the mediums are different. Somethings don't translate as well into a wearable form.
Soccerfun88said 138 weeks ago
Soccerfun88said 138 weeks ago
Last post, I swear!
nealtasticsaid 138 weeks ago
melbelsaid 138 weeks ago
Is that the new walmart symbol? I think it is.
melbelsaid 138 weeks ago
toddsayshisaid 138 weeks ago
Muntoesaid 138 weeks ago
NeoAkirasaid 138 weeks ago
Sirknifesalotsaid 138 weeks ago
How does that absolve them from the Cinderella they've done in the past? Sorry, owning Marvel does not all of a sudden give you a free pass. They might not be as evil as some of the others listed but they do their share of evil. Also Quiznos should be on there. I don't know where but they're evil.
The idea is nice but the shirt is so-so. I like the letter usage though. Not something I'd wear.
k8ee7said 138 weeks ago
ntzystucksaid 138 weeks ago
poolshark411said 138 weeks ago
totemicsaid 138 weeks ago
Kimoppisaid 138 weeks ago
born2codesaid 138 weeks ago
bandairoosaid 138 weeks ago
IronMansaid 138 weeks ago
Kudos.
n.liusaid 138 weeks ago
Gozzsaid 138 weeks ago
born2codesaid 138 weeks ago
kittycavalier64said 138 weeks ago
Tibbstersaid 138 weeks ago
Stexesaid 138 weeks ago
Who then go on to get paid off by big corporations to make exceptions for them? Yep!
Stexesaid 138 weeks ago
jaysea420said 138 weeks ago
represent us.... LOL!!
Tibbstersaid 138 weeks ago
I only used "fine fellows" because everything else I could have said would have been censored into an incoherent mess by Tee Fury. Things about Cinderella-Pokemon probably.
thunderingweisaid 138 weeks ago
Nnenenesaid 138 weeks ago
TurnThePaigesaid 138 weeks ago
but congrats on the design, it hits some hard views.
rohickssaid 138 weeks ago
pabasisaid 138 weeks ago
- People vs. Radio
Positivxsaid 138 weeks ago
Mr. Sweet N Awfulsaid 138 weeks ago
but I'm way too broke, and I already have a shirt in the mail
The day I order a TeeFury shirt when I still have a TeeFury shirt in the mail is the day I admit I have a problem.
MadRabbisaid 138 weeks ago
The original artist is named only "O", but this IS copyrighted work. Do your homework TeeFury.
MadRabbisaid 138 weeks ago
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wili/146700596/
kylecostersaid 138 weeks ago
MadRabbisaid 138 weeks ago
nviccionesaid 138 weeks ago
Olympiasaid 138 weeks ago
wottosaid 138 weeks ago
agreatrandomsaid 138 weeks ago
Completely agree. Reminds me of those Coexist shirts that I always thought were kinda cool. Good job though.
MadRabbisaid 138 weeks ago
Well, in the original art, which has been shamelessly plagiarized here, the "O" was the AT&T globe, the "A" was the Anheiser Busch logo, and the "Y" was the Yahoo logo. To bad lame copycats can't be as original or as accurate. Pathetic.
FuzzyLogicsaid 138 weeks ago
It's not the first time I've seen a "coincidence" in this guys portfolio.
Wowzers.
*sigh* Sad.
philippemorin123said 138 weeks ago
scythesaid 138 weeks ago
totally agree. no wonder my eyes didn't light up with interest when i saw it cos i knew I'd seen it somewhere else before. Howies, a u.k t shirt company did this tee ages ago too. all Elliott has done is stuck a splotted map of America behind it.
pretty poor attempt at plagiarism, you didn't even copy the style, you just copied the whole thing! Elliott Rodriguez should be ashamed.
JustSupersaid 138 weeks ago
308NATOsaid 138 weeks ago
OK, back to World Order!!!!
What should the US spread?
Capitalism or Collectivism/Communism?
Democracy or Autocracy?
I think Freedomand let a free people work to always find the balance between Tyranny (Rulers Law) and Anarchy (No Law). The balance is the Peoples Law.
And the people love McDonalds, Target, and Coke
FuzzyLogicsaid 138 weeks ago
I *LOVE* Coke! I'd love it even more if it were made by evil bears!
308NATOsaid 138 weeks ago
This could be your lucky day; Odds are there are some folks at the Chicago Coca Cola bottling company with some Evil intent.
dramallama56said 138 weeks ago
I really love this though. Not as big on placement, but otherwise love.
drVoxsaid 138 weeks ago
anyone ever read Jennifer Government? it's a great book, has very much to do with this kind of message :)
hezaasaid 138 weeks ago
alexandrakeelsaid 138 weeks ago
Renaesaid 138 weeks ago
Oh well.
Siasaid 138 weeks ago
kgvectsaid 138 weeks ago
whoelsesaid 138 weeks ago
All I can do at this point is assure you that I was completely unaware of this other work when I created this design. I spent several hours with my wife and a few friends talking about the creation of this design and choosing logos to incorporate into the piece. I am completely floored by the existence of this painting. Certainly if I had plagiarized this work, I would not have had the gall to have it posted where it would surely be recognized.
I don't believe my personal anecdotes about the design process are sufficient evidence to convince current and future viewers. It is incredibly frustrating for me to be unable to prove a lack of awareness of this painting. I know how this design came to be, and I have no way to prove that other than my own memory and memory of those who were with me while working on it.
biotwistsaid 138 weeks ago
FuzzyLogicsaid 138 weeks ago
308NATOsaid 138 weeks ago
Dead Bird!!!
FuzzyLogicsaid 138 weeks ago
Iriesaid 138 weeks ago
anyways, I enjoy the shirt, but i just wouldn't wear it.
308NATOsaid 138 weeks ago
What about the Cthulhu? is the question on the table..
4 and twenty..
jecrtsaid 138 weeks ago
it's true.
Sirotaksaid 138 weeks ago
all th esideart is great and Tee design is neat but not going to purchase this one
fatalligatorsaid 138 weeks ago
Although I'm pleased to tell you that you have connected with an older audience, first purchase from my dad.
Schwigitysaid 138 weeks ago
alimdsaid 138 weeks ago
I'm sorry everyone is being so harsh, artist guy. It's not that difficult of an idea to have come up with, it makes sense that several people would have had it. Congrats on working through a pretty nice design, I prefer yours it's more subtle.
FuzzyLogicsaid 138 weeks ago
Hmmm, alimd. Uhm. huh?
So, the Cthulhu by Toren Atkinson (longtime fan) *IS* even MORE so original. SWIPE!
FuzzyLogicsaid 138 weeks ago
Hahahahahahahaha
Oh Steve. That was brilliant timing before the madness :D
Weeee1
Time to go out and buy a new keyboard1 See? Dang ole' shift key. ;)
Have a great day111
Back later.
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. "
steveomacsaid 138 weeks ago
katemonstahsaid 138 weeks ago
MJsaid 138 weeks ago
The artist has spoken, guys.
In my opinion, this is not a rip. I've seen a few versions of the basic logo letters/political statement MashedPotato concept (with a few different words used, like America, Capitalism, Empire, etc). This is the best one I've seen, and I don't think it's close enough to the other versions I've seen to merit these rip call outs.
There will be no dead bird, and if you can't post respectfully and without using personal attacks, your post will be deleted.
308NATOsaid 138 weeks ago
Is it really that hard not to put folks down? - "It's not that difficult of an idea to have come up with" Well let's try.
Plasmosaid 138 weeks ago
mittengirlsaid 138 weeks ago
Not overdone at all, people need to see stuff like this!
BenjaminPhantomsaid 138 weeks ago
skonen_bladessaid 138 weeks ago
That being said, I think I'd like it a little better if every logo there was a soulless crusher of life rather than just two-thirds of them.
As for the Toren Cthulu thing, I don't see a rip. It's a three-quarter angle drawing of Cthulu walking. Again, not an original pose. It looks like it was inspired by Toren's piece and I've redrawn a lot of my favourite artist's works to try to figure out how they did stuff.
The whole thing sounds dodgy, I know, but I think that's just an unfortunate coincidence and I'm siding with the artist.
Oiseausaid 138 weeks ago
deadshallrisesaid 138 weeks ago
Dell 'E' is solid, Enron 'E' is an outline without the bottom left hand corner.
Try again ;)
Snowysaid 138 weeks ago
thicketssaid 138 weeks ago
-Toren
http://www.toren.net/thickets
308NATOsaid 138 weeks ago
Guess it is back to why is the Tee White and why is the Tee BlackHo-Hum
BlueEyedSoulBrothersaid 138 weeks ago
Agreed Ms. Cake.
MadRabbisaid 138 weeks ago
MJsaid 138 weeks ago
MadRabbi, I am not sure how much more clear on this I can possibly be. You can post comments. You can't post rude, jerky insults. Check the Teevil post at the top of the comments for details.
Calm, rational discussion of plagiarism = Okay. Claiming that your opinion is the only correct one and everyone else is an idiot = Have fun getting deleted.
Common sense, dude.
JurassicFunksaid 138 weeks ago
Zeitgeist Addendum:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912#
Quote:
At the hearts of this institutional self-preservation lies the monetary system, for it is money that provides the means for power and survival: therefore, just as a poor person may be forced to steal in order to survive, it is a natural inclination to do whatever is needed to continue an institution's profitability. This makes it inherently difficult for profit based institutions to change, for it puts in jeopardy not only the survival of large groups of people, but also the coveted materialistic lifestyles associated with affluence and power. Therefore the paralysing necessity to preserve an institution, regardless of its social relevance, is largely rooted in the need for money or profit.
...It is important to point out that regardless of the social system, whether fascist, socialist, capitalist or communist, the underlying mechanism is still money, labour and competition... the reality is that "monetary-ism" (so to speak) is the true mechanism that guides the interests of all the countries on the planet. The most aggressive and hence dominant variation of this monetary-ism is the free enterprise system.
...whether it is dumping toxic waste, having a monopoly enterprise, or downsizing the workforce, the motive is the same: profit. They are all different degrees of the same self-preserving mechanism which always puts the wellbeing of people second to monetary gain. Therefore, "corruption" is not some by-product of "monetary-ism", it is the very foundation. And while most people acknowledge this tendency on one level or another, the majority remains naive as to the broad ramifications of having such a selfish mechanism as the guiding mentality in society.
...war, poverty, corruption, hunger, misery, human suffering will not change in a monetary system, that is there will be very little significant change: it is going to take the redesign of our culture, our values...
JurassicFunksaid 138 weeks ago
Thevenusproject.com
DCameronsaid 138 weeks ago
MadRabbisaid 138 weeks ago
Personally insulting TeeFury staff is an excellent way to get banned. Post respectfully or don't post at all.
alimdsaid 138 weeks ago
Main Entry: republic
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈpə-blik\
Function: noun
Etymology: French rublique, from Middle French republique, from Latin respublica, from res thing, wealth + publica, feminine of publicus public more at real, public
Date: 1604
1 a (1) : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government b (1) : a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law (2) : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government c : a usually specified republican government of a political unit
2 : a body of persons freely engaged in a specified activity
3 : a constituent political and territorial unit of the former nations of Czechoslovakia, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or Yugoslavia
Try again Snowy.
biotwistsaid 138 weeks ago
It was lame when the sitar hero shirt i got from here turned out to be made mostly of stock art and this is lame too. and greedy.
biotwistsaid 138 weeks ago
totemicsaid 138 weeks ago
I've only recently become aware of Tee Fury and have checked the shirts daily since I discovered the site. This is the first one I decided to buy, and I also bought one for my wife (my first purchase because I don't wear light colored shirts - many were cool, 1 too light)
I have to admit that I believe this was an intentional rip, but that's a personal opinion and I have only my gut to support my impression.
I do like this design better than the one with the flag though. It does look different, but the "meat" of the design is the concept behind it, and that is virtually identical.
I'll wear the shirt and enjoy it, but I probably would not have bought it had I seen the flag version first.
In the future I think I'll wait for the comment process to play out before I buy.
To the artist: Only you know the truth - if you did not rip the concept please ignore my thoughts.
christinesaid 138 weeks ago
Wow, just wow. I was about to spring for 1, but now it's a pass. I don't want to get into the habit of supporting artists whose art is not-a-rip-but-way-too-close-to-the-work-of-others.
P.S. This design looks more ghetto compared to the painting because of the use of paint drips.
jaysea420said 138 weeks ago
apparently calling this statement racist is a 'excellent way to get banned' huh? you say be respectful or don't post at all but you don't delete stevomac's comment? why?
if i had offended someone of another (or even the same) race wouldn't you delete that comment? so why not now? why not do the easy thing and delete his comment?
do i need to translate how his statement offends me as a 'white' person?
so am i to believe steveomac when he says that "white people are the most corporate advertising symbols"?
is that all i am to you teefury? a symbol? is that what all white people are to teefury just a symbol for corporate advertising? if not then why is teefury not deleting his comment? the only reason i can see why is if teefury agrees with that statement.
should i remind steveomac that corporations exist in mostly all parts of the world and those corporations use models of ALL races? not just the "super white blue eyed anglos"
delete mine again if you'd like but do me the courtesy and delete his as well.
i come here for tee shirts, not to see racist comments.
Sirknifesalotsaid 138 weeks ago
Do you pay for the site? No! So anything TF doesn't want on the site they can choose. If they don't want your words on here because you're being disruptive about something that they have already ruled on, then they can choose to remove your words.
Also I do think this looks to be a blatant rip off. Especially when you throw the Cthulhu artwork that Fuzzylogic put up. Not as bad but it reminds me of the whole Olechka ordeal. And she's still put out her designs and winning money too.
While I think this has been modified slightly from the original, it still looks pretty much the same.
And yes we are a Republic. That's why you say Republic in The Pledge of Allegiance.
Toucan Girlsaid 138 weeks ago
If I created a design and someone had something almost exactly similar to it and said it was just a coincedence and mine was created first, I would definately be suspicious.
If I made something that coincedently looked too similiar to someone else's and theirs' was created first, I would take it down.
I think it seems disrespectful to the original artist if you say it was just a coincedence and that is your justification for keeping it up when you know they had the idea first.
I know there are a lot of different ideas out there and these days its hard to create something completely original but I think if an idea already exists then you should move on and try coming up with something else...
alimdsaid 138 weeks ago
Sirknifesalotsaid 138 weeks ago
MJsaid 138 weeks ago
Dial back the aggression, please. I don't believe steveomac's comment is racist, just a statement pointing out that those same companies that this shirt mocks would probably use similar-looking models to advertise for their products. Which, it seems to me, is a fair statement.
The "an excellent way to get banned" comment was pointed at another user, whose post was modified with the Teevil probation symbol, after repeated posts that included personal attacks against the artist, TeeFury staff, and other posters.
While I understand where you are coming from, I think calling steveomac racist is very harsh and not based on much evidence. If he or any other poster DOES post racist content, it will be deleted.
dramallama56said 138 weeks ago
Everyone needs to chill out. I'm not saying one person is right and the other is wrong, because this is definitely a topic where even if the artist brings everyone he knows here to prove that he didn't rip it off, people here will still think it's a ripoff. And understandably so, seeing it is hard to prove anything.
Personally, I think the truth of the matter is it WASN'T a ripoff, it was an accidental similarity. At least this one was. Using logos to spell words is NOT an uncommon idea. Heck, there's a thing on facebook which spells your name with logos. It's nothing new. So I think that he did just have a similar idea to that painting. Stuff happens like that, regularly. You come up with an idea and you're like "this is great" and then you find out that someone else has already made a shirt, or a painting, or an advertisement, hell ANYTHING using that same idea. Seeing as this site is filled with shirt designers, where personally I've found the most trouble with my original ideas actually being original, you'd think everyone would understand that. I mean, I dunno about you all but I run into that a TON. Anyways, point being, people make mistakes and "bad stuff" happens. It's hard to have an original idea. Also that, no offense ArtistMan but logos to spell out words is a common idea.
Also like to point out that he didn't copy it verbatim in that, he used different logos in multiple places. Just thought I'd stick up for ArtistMan here.
I dunno.
I guess, all I'm saying, is lay off our poor artist here and lay off the staff. They're doing the best they can, both parties, and all the peeps in the chat do is rip on them for being unfair about moderating out comments that are blatant attacks or making a mistake, or not having diverse enough models. Just chill. This is t-shirts, not congress, it's supposed to be fun.
Nuff said.
Sirknifesalotsaid 138 weeks ago
If these differences aren't allowed then how is art ever going to exist without having everything be plagiarized?
Toucan Girlsaid 138 weeks ago
MJsaid 138 weeks ago
I think a lot of art falls into gray areas, so to speak. For some people it's closer to black, for others closer to white.
Not everyone has the same comfort zone when it comes to either coincidence or inspiration, so it can become a pretty heated discussion pretty quickly. I'm glad so many posters have been able to discuss their opinions respectfully, it makes me really proud of the community here :)
308NATOsaid 138 weeks ago
Why the black Tee's
Why the White Tee's
Grey...the perfect Tee...and less FURY!!!
and remember
"The balance is the Peoples Law."
zchlovesbeersaid 138 weeks ago
BubbaNushsaid 138 weeks ago
christinesaid 138 weeks ago
My feelings exactly. I think people will now think twice about buying an "original" design from Elliott Rodriguez or will wait to buy a TF shirt until more comments are posted. I know I will.
lolztuffsaid 138 weeks ago
Besides all the drama, the message a bit too edgy for edgy-nesse's sake.
FuzzyLogicsaid 138 weeks ago
;-)
Nice.
jaysea420said 138 weeks ago
no, i don't think you know where i'm coming from.
if you did then it would be promptly taken down with all my comments on the subject.
you agree with steveomac.
that's all that needs to be said.
i would like to point out that most of those companies that are listed on the shirt operate globally and have global marketing plans that don't always include 'super white blue eyed anglos'
and the marketing campaigns that do take place in the U.S. for the most part encompass all races.
cnn? really? isn't that the station that airs that show called 'black in america'? your going to say that station is going to use similar looking models to showcase their products?
because toys r us is just going to use the 'white' kids for their ads! Go to their homepage. There are boys and girls of all color. McDonalds? Yeah no people of color eat McDonalds or shop at target etc.
the perpetuation of stereotypes is not what this site should be about.
MJsaid 138 weeks ago
The shirt is not about global advertising, it is about the United States and even specifically shows that map.
I have personally seen more ads featuring white people than featuring other races. This makes sense because that is (or was until recently, I'm not sure) representative of the population of this country.
The comment stays. I see absolutely no way in which it is offensive to white people to state the fact that they are used in advertising more than any other group in this country. How is that even a stereotype?
BubbaNushsaid 138 weeks ago
kgvectsaid 138 weeks ago
Hah hah yes!!!
DrSpoqsaid 138 weeks ago
my thoughts exactly.
Blazeldudesaid 138 weeks ago
Man walks into a bar.
Ouch.
ThirstyFlysaid 138 weeks ago
ThirstyFlysaid 138 weeks ago
A drunk goes into a bar. The bartender tosses him out as he is too drunk. The drunk walks back into the bar. Again, the bartender throws him out for being too drunk. Again the drunk walks into the bar. The bartender is just about the throw him out when the drunk looks at him and says, "How many bars do you own, anyway?"
matt2koolsaid 138 weeks ago
love the squid on the side though. print that soon tee fury?
BubbaNushsaid 138 weeks ago
308NATOsaid 138 weeks ago
Here are the 2006 numbers:
Race Percentage Number
White alone
(Not including the 23.2 million
White Hispanic and Latino Americans: 66% or 198.1 million)
74% 221.3 million
Hispanic or Latino ethnicity, of any race
14.8% about 44.3 million
Black or African American alone
13.4% 40.9 million
Some other race alone
6.5% 19 million
Asian alone
4.4% 13.1 million
Two or more races
2.0% 6.1 million
American Indian or Alaska Native alone
0.68% 2.0 million
Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander alone
0.14% 0.43 million
BubbaNushsaid 138 weeks ago
FuzzyLogicsaid 138 weeks ago
Eliphino.
;-)
MJsaid 138 weeks ago
TheMadRabbisaid 138 weeks ago
Rhowdy17said 138 weeks ago
Sirknifesalotsaid 138 weeks ago
.... with knives! Lol!
Teachersaid 138 weeks ago
Oops I hit "Add Your Comment" before adding a comment.
Just because a lot of people agree with "anything" does not make it so. The Artist Man already explained himself. I believe it was an honest explanation. Not everyone lacks profesional integrety. The fact that you are so intent in proving your point perhaps says more about you than the artist.
stiricidesaid 138 weeks ago
308NATOsaid 138 weeks ago
Unicorns and Rainbows Happy thoughts!!!
Sorry...
Chadloniussaid 138 weeks ago
FuzzyLogicsaid 138 weeks ago
Right On. :)
FuzzyLogicsaid 138 weeks ago
Weeee!!!!
Cheese cubes, crackers and Coca Cola!
ALOT of them. :D
FuzzyLogicsaid 138 weeks ago
MJsaid 138 weeks ago
It was one of the factors contributing to some problems people were having loading this page, so we've removed it for the time being :)
TheMadRabbisaid 138 weeks ago
Yeah, ok Teacher,
Like I explained in the 20 or so posts that got deleted, it wasn't really a matter of whether the artist copied the original on purpose, or not. The issue is the very definition of plagiarism, which whether purposeful or not, is present in this work. I'm not saying the guy can't pay homage, but give the credit where it's due. And if it's a coincidence, have the dignity to recognize the fact that somebody beat you to it, and take it down. Or better yet do the research before you present it to the public.
The only thing this says about me is that I take pride in the art that I create, and that I hold myself to a higher standard than others. Go ahead and make all the judgements you want, I'm an originator, not an imitator.
TheMadRabbisaid 138 weeks ago
308NATOsaid 138 weeks ago
Teachersaid 138 weeks ago
Since the advent of spell check I must admit that I have relaxed on spelling. If all you have is my misspelling of INTEGRETY "you got me"
I hope you have more important things to focus on.
xed
Jonny Ruckussaid 138 weeks ago
I sock. :(
christinesaid 138 weeks ago
Michael Moore and brilliant/wonderful should never be in the same sentence.
pbpatel1984said 138 weeks ago
jekajadasaid 138 weeks ago
JonBowerbanksaid 134 weeks ago
hyrule472said 132 weeks ago
kainicram13said 70 weeks ago
kainicram13said 70 weeks ago
The second letter is from dell not enron!