Rules Reminder: This should go without saying, but please don't use the front page to link to competing websites. Yes, we know other people have drawn Cthulhu. No, those don't look much like this one.
I'd probably say instabuy if I was actually familiar with Cthulhu more than knowing the basic premise of it... Guess it's a sign that I should get learnin'!
Very cool! Kinda wish there was a second color in there to add some dept, a light green yellow for some high lights on the high surfaces to make them pop a bit. Still, very nice design, will be buying!
not a Lovecraft fan or anything ... but this design ... oh boy: the detail, the composition, the linework, it's pretty much perfect.
also I think it's great to see every once in a while that the people who decide things around here aren't just businesmen, but artists of their own. gives their decisions a certain weight, I guess
all last night i had fevered nightmares that this was going to be today's shirt - i woke again and again trembling and nearly hypnotised with horror. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
if you think about it hard enough, you could see that it looks like a lovecraft version of something of edgar allen poe. just replace lovecraft with poe and cthulu with a ghost of a beautiful women. cool design tho.
This is a blatant rip-off of my design http://www.francescofrancavilla.com/gallery/hp_lovecraft.html and both the artist and teefury will hear from my legal.
The similarities are basically if they were both told to draw Lovecraft with a book and a monster.. its a shame but I don't know if I would call it a blatant ripoff.
Sorry, but this has to be said. This T-shirt design is a blatant rip off of another artists work, to be found here: http://www.francescofrancavilla.com/gallery/hp_lovecraft.html
if you have any problem with the design or you feel like any copyright issues might ensue ... act like a grown-up and talk to TeeFury's service department instead of joining TeeFury under two gazillion names and spamming the fork out of this place.
you. are. annoying! we got it the first time. somebody made a drawing of Lovecraft with Chtulu in the background ... big deal. oh - did you give the photographer of Lovecraft's original portrait any credits?
did you?
I didn't think so.
now either voice your concerns to the poeple in charge or stay silent ... but don't try to agitate people in a angry-child-tearing-a-napkin manner. that's embarrassing
lindsymnster said: Besides the blatant likeness of Francavilla's design, the composition and elements instantly reminded me of a Lovecraft themed shirt I picked up awhile ago from another site:
if you have any problem with the design or you feel like any copyright issues might ensue ... act like a grown-up and talk to TeeFury's service department instead of joining TeeFury under two gazillion names and spamming the fork out of this place.
you. are. annoying! we got it the first time. somebody made a drawing of Lovecraft with Chtulu in the background ... big deal. oh - did you give the photographer of Lovecraft's original portrait any credits?
did you?
I didn't think so.
now either voice your concerns to the poeple in charge or stay silent ... but don't try to agitate people in a angry-child-tearing-a-napkin manner. that's embarrassing
I don't know who Solario/Francavilla are, but the above was my first post ever. I am very new to teefury, having only purchased 1 shirt so far. I like the above design, but if you copy/paste the URL, you will see what I am talking about. He didn't even really change the image! I am an artist myself, among other things, and I know if someone made a t-shirt using such a close image to my original, I'd be upset. I've also used th "contact us" option to let teefury know of the possible copyright infringement.
I assume Francavilla will take the appropriate legal actions. So the comments are just us fans finding it a little bit ridiculous that the "art director" would think this piece is transformative enough to be considered his work, without even so much as a callback.
Also, your photo comment is just the silliness. Anything prior to 1923 is in the public domain and Lovecraft *died* in 1937. (As someone who only uses art legally, I'm aware of such things.)
This is a pretty blatant swipe from Francesco Francavilla you can see the original here http://www.francescofrancavilla.com/gallery/hp_lovecraft.html . Personally I wouldn't give my money to this type of "artist". Create your own art people !
Did you really have $100 leather engraved covers of the swiped image made? Wow. I am not about a witch hunt, it could have been a temporary (but major) slip in judgement. Who knows. But it needs to be made right. You seem to be arrogantly denying it, and that is not going to end well. Just take the shirt down. And if you guys like the design so much (because it is really cool), hire the original artist Francesco Francavilla instead.
itsbecca said: Also, your photo comment is just the silliness. Anything prior to 1923 is in the public domain and Lovecraft *died* in 1937. (As someone who only uses art legally, I'm aware of such things.)
first: that's neither true nor would change a thing: it's still someone else's photograph, if you're so keen on naming sources, you would have to include that one as well, no matter if it's free or not. I couldn't just quote Hamlet without saying it's Shakespeare's words, not mine.
other than that I wouldn't wanna deny Francavilla his creativity or anything, I was mostly pointing out that there is obvious trolling going on here, a "lot of people" who joined today just to post the same link over and over again? c'mon ... that's ridiculous and you know it.
this and everything I said in the above comment ... THAT's my point!
I'm looking at the supposed art it's a rip-off of and the only thing that is vaguely similar is the way the right eye looks.
Nothing else is similar. Not even the shape of the face. So, I don't see how it's a copied design.
This design is thematically similar to the design you people keep referencing, and it has a similar layout and both artists made the logical choice of making one eye look as if HP is changing into something otherworldly. It is not however a direct copy, the details are nothing alike, and everyone saying it is a rip off is clearly just trying to rush into a fight for the sake of fighting. If you think these are exactly the same, then you must not have ever seen another portrait of HP Lovecraft, because they're ALL equally similar.
it's not a rip-off at all .. it just uses the same source photograph and put Lovecraft and his most famous creation into one picture ... and that's not exactly sooo far off that it couldn't have come to several minds at the same time (and I bet there's more of them out there)
bet won: I mean designs like this or this or even that
Francesco Francaville stole the idea of drawing Lovecraft in a victorian garb from a 1937 portrait by Virgil Finaly - http://www.johncoulthart.com/feuilleton/2007/01/30/hp-lovecrafts-favourite-artists/
itsbecca said: Also, your photo comment is just the silliness. Anything prior to 1923 is in the public domain and Lovecraft *died* in 1937. (As someone who only uses art legally, I'm aware of such things.)
first: that's neither true nor would change a thing: it's still someone else's photograph, if you're so keen on naming sources, you would have to include that one as well, no matter if it's free or not. I couldn't just quote Hamlet without saying it's Shakespeare's words, not mine.
other than that I wouldn't wanna deny Francavilla his creativity or anything, I was mostly pointing out that there is obvious trolling going on here, a "lot of people" who joined today just to post the same link over and over again? c'mon ... that's ridiculous and you know it.
this and everything I said in the above comment ... THAT's my point!
kgullholmen said: wow, way to be an obvious troll
if you have any problem with the design or you feel like any copyright issues might ensue ... act like a grown-up and talk to TeeFury's service department instead of joining TeeFury under two gazillion names and spamming the fork out of this place.
you. are. annoying! we got it the first time. somebody made a drawing of Lovecraft with Chtulu in the background ... big deal. oh - did you give the photographer of Lovecraft's original portrait any credits?
did you?
I didn't think so.
now either voice your concerns to the poeple in charge or stay silent ... but don't try to agitate people in a angry-child-tearing-a-napkin manner. that's embarrassing
http://copylaw.com/new_articles/PublicDomain.html
Any and all works created in the United States prior to 1923 that were not revised are part of the public domain. So yes kgullholmen, it is true. The photo can be used without permission/citation to create a derivative or interpretative work (which can then be copyrighted).
Try doing a little googling on a subject before you call someone a liar. Failing to do so just makes you look the fool.
kgullholmen said:
first: that's neither true nor would change a thing: it's still someone else's photograph, if you're so keen on naming sources, you would have to include that one as well, no matter if it's free or not. I couldn't just quote Hamlet without saying it's Shakespeare's words, not mine
I appreciate the non aggressive tone, though I do have to point out that citing sources in a paper and artistic copyright are completely different. One is a photograph from an artist who is quite likely dead, and if it is in the public domain it is legally available to use in it's entirety without citation. That doesn't mean you can say "I took this photograph!", but you can print the work as is or use the work within your own art. Google LHOOQ for an example.
So the above explanation is very much unlike using a composition that is copyrighted 6 years ago by an alive and well artist. Even if jimiyo drew the art from scratch, which he very well may have in order to add the beasty hands and alien head, if he's copying the idea and composition from someone else's work it's still a breech of copyright. Changing a few details is not the point,one of the only ways to legally get away with it is parady (Which teefury rides on a lot) but by actively denying the source material that bridge is done burned ya'll.
(And the other pictures you posted are similar thematically, but in composition... not that much. Jimiyo's and Francavilla's; with the tentacles splaying out directly behind the head, the book and the deformed eye; are so close I had to *actively* look for the differences.)
Normally I'd buy anything Lovecraft, but unless Teefury is giving Francesco Francavilla a cut of this one you're not getting a dime from me. Lovecraft's work may be in the public domain but Francavilla's isn't. (I'm not a sockpuppet)
I actually joined up today because I had previously thought about buying a t-shirt from TeeFury, but was so disgusted by this act of plagerism, that I felt like others should be made aware of it.
The reason everyone joined up today is because Francesco posted about it on his twitter account today and the art community generally hates a plagerist.
It's, however, very interesting that instead of attack the argument that the drawing is plagerism, you decided to attack my, and others, character. So you apparently agree with the assessment; you just don't like us?
I rather look like a fool than being part if this witch hunt.
that being said: I wasn't talking about copyright issues in my first comment about all this. I merely pointed out that a lot of user names suddenly appeared out of nowhere stating the same thing over and over again. that's trolling and it's annoying.
and in my second comment I basically said: it doesn't matter if it's LEGAL or not, if you're so keen on presenting sources, you'd gotta have to give the photographer credit - no matter whether he's dead, undead or whatever ... you still didn't create this picture. and implying you did in fact create this picture by declaring that something else using the same source is a rip-off of YOUR work ... now that's ... that's ... presumptuous I guess.
I still don't see how using a certain photograph for reference is any more creative than using the very same photograph ... for (wait for it!) reference. it's VERY obvious concept (see the images I linked earlier) based on the same sources, therefore similarities are inevitable
but yeah, folks, just keep on trollin' ... you gotta get your ego from somewhere, why not the internet :o*
TeeFury I am VERY disappointed in you! As a frequent customer of this site, I'm now whining all future purchases because of today's design being theft of Francesco Francavilla's design.
The fact that people have been complaining for the past 12 hours and it's STILL up tells me you're turning a blind eye, and continuing on no questions asked as long as it makes you a few extra bucks.
The design needs to come down, and you need to send an apology to Mr. Francavilla. I'm very disgusted with you all right now.
This isn't someone posting from multiple accounts. Francesco Francavilla is a relatively well-known comic artist (he just finished a run on Detective Comics and will soon be doing art for Captain America). He tweeted about it and alerted many people that this was happening.
It's a shame, because I'd love a shirt with Francavilla's original design, but I won't buy a plagarized version.
A witch hunt implies that it's unearned prosecution. This is someone clearly taking someone else's design (composition, elements, and all) and using it for themselves in order to make money. It's stealing. And not in a Picasso "Bad artists borrow; good artists steal"-type of fashion, but in an "I'm taking this from you, and selling it in order to make money"-kind of way. That's like saying that the prosecution of a thief is a witch hunt.
Trolling implies that I'm doing this solely to illicit an emotional response without any other reason. Of course, what I (and others) are doing is punish a plagerist by shaming him (because apparently TeeFury isn't doing anything and legal actions take more than a day) and advising others to steer clear of this site because it promotes theft.
In regards to your complaint about Francesco not citing the photography, whereby he procured the likeness: it's in public domain. End of discussion. The photographer is dead and his copyright has expired. Plus, Francesco transfered the image from one medium (photography) to another (drawing). These three reasons alone underline why the circumstances are not the same.
The point is: unrepentent, incarnted plagerists should be shunned, legally prosecuted and shamed.
"Tell us about the design: I didn't know anything about Cthulhu or Lovecraft until Missmonster sold a Cthulhu shirt with us. I started to investigate and oh my, what a delight! Creatures and creepy things! Lovecraft is a madman of imagination. While watching District 9 (see the alien resemblance?) I was inspired to create this design. It's not a far fetch from prawns to a tentacled monster. I thought it would be cool to represent Lovecraft as a monster as well, as his mind is the father of monstrosities.(see his hand and eyeball)"
This to me sounds like "the artist" feels he thought of this idea ALL BY HIS LONESOME. In fact, he'd never heard of this Cthulu that we speak of. It's very n00b of him and idiotic for us to believe for one minute that he was just "inspired" one day.
If it were just an art piece, it'd be no big deal...but dude...you're making money off of the multiple reproduction of an image. It's not an homage to the original artists work, or a work of parody, it is a blatant disregard for the original artist's idea and claiming it as your own.
I suppose when the word spreads to the very close knit Cthulu community "that we speak of", they will not be happy and the sales will speak for their views, however...it's douchebaggery and dishonesty for you to keep this up for sale. I can see the headlines: TeeFury causes Tee Fury. Not good PR.
Hum, I thought I'd sign up to say my piece. I'm not going to say the designs don't look similar. I had to actively compare and pick out differences (clothing (the original photo had him in a tie, whereas Francesco's has him in a more... judge? type attire), Cthulhu's design, book shape, pose, Lovecraft's hair (Francesco's is much closer to the original photo), ect).
I then also decided to look up other illustrations of Lovecraft and Cthulhu and found that it's a rather popular composition. (Or similar aspects, imo.)
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/coc/Site/howard_phillips_lovecraft.jpg
http://snoopymd.deviantart.com/art/HP-Lovecraft-and-Cthulhu-194376565
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqng40UoLr1qf83cro1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1317139722&Signature=sUT07hY06ZpUklmY4mVvLIVobTU%3D
http://i45.tinypic.com/la03l.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn148/unity_mask/lovecraft_garypullin-thumb-400x517.jpg
I know these aren't as similar as the two up above by jimyo and Francesco, but the common aspects between them make it a possibility that it was a coincidence. I dunno if it was, but hey.
Probably some of the coolest Lovecraft art I've ever seen. Jimiyo nails it again. Well played, sir. I'll put a lil extra cash in the bank on my lunch break. ;)
Today I refuse to buy this shirt for the reason that it is completely unoriginal and has been stolen from an artist who is deserving of recognition for his original piece. 6 years ago, a comic artist named Francesco Francavilla designed an HP Lovecraft piece that was basically traced over to create this shirt design. If any of you feel the same way, please let Tee Fury know that this kind of plagiarism should not go unanswered.
See for yourself at:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/26/swipe-file-francesco-vs-jamio/
I'm more of a Lovecraft fan than I am an "art" fan. Personally, despite the similarities in the two, I would prefer to wear this one on a Teeshirt. I also think there are enough differences between the two to believe that Jimiyo came up with a similar idea on his own. Francesco's original piece wasn't the most extraordinary Lovecraft rendition ever, and certainly not the most original idea. Good for him, his piece is very nice, however it seems a little arrogant making such a big deal about it.
If it's plagiarism or not, I'll leave it to Teefury's staff to judge. If they cancel the sale of the shirt, that's fine, but if the sales go on, I'll want one!
I'm trying to buy the shirt, but when I place the order, this error occurs:
I would question the artistic sensibilities of anyone who refers to this as plagiarism (or "plagerism" for the functionally illiterate types). Differences outnumber similarities, and "basically traced over" is a patently and blatantly false characterization. Could it be a swipe? Sure. It's not close enough for any of the me-toos blindly following links from twitter because a comic book artist told them they should make a fuss to have any degree of certainty, though. So yes, this absolutely qualifies as a witch hunt.
And Francavilla, the best your attorneys could do is send an empty C&D letter. There are no grounds for any serious legal action here, as I'm sure you'll discover upon speaking with your representation.
wow.... balls, meet set. not cool stealing someone else's work, then passing it off as your own. If you love it so much, this is the artist you should contact
http://www.francescofrancavilla.com/gallery/hp_lovecraft.html
I'm not a fan of the macabre, but was I, this would be a shirt I'd wear, so I'm buying for someone else.
One side in this debate says; pointing guns at people and stealing money is okay to protect ideas. If this where the case in all intellectual property; there would be little building of thought to begin with. Most people are just echoing borrowed wit anyway. Would they be thought plagiarizers? Should they also be sued over this supposed property right?
If you look closer at the eye; it's different too.
Just curious what monster of H.P. Lovecraft has a clawed hand like that?
The similarities between the two pieces are minimal. The composition and shape of the face comes purely from the photograph and the background elements have very little in common.
There's 1000's of art pieces and t-shirts designed every minute, it's inevitable that some pieces will look slightly similar but people claiming it's stolen and the like are clearly jumping on the bandwagon and/or can't see.
The similarities between the two pieces are minimal. The composition and shape of the face comes purely from the photograph and the background elements have very little in common.
There's 1000's of art pieces and t-shirts designed every minute, it's inevitable that some pieces will look slightly similar but people claiming it's stolen and the like are clearly jumping on the bandwagon and/or can't see.
It's not theft.
It's not even that similar.
Calm down kids.
Francesco himself started all this drama. And he's not a child, he's a full grown adult. All it boils down to is greed. Money makes the world go round. That's why I like buying cheap Teeshirts on Teefury! FTW!
not one to speak up here - but when dealing with a very specific subject, such as this, I don't find the similarities anything but coincidental... the lovecraft reference
... the lovecraft reference is here and the 10 billion interpretations of tentacled creatures out there that came before EITHER pieces does not equal a rip, but a very narrow subject... Jimiyo ain't no hack...
The similarities between Francavilla's piece and this artists' piece from 1937 are just as close. Pot, meet kettle... http://www.johncoulthart.com/feuilleton/2007/01/30/hp-lovecrafts-favourite-artists/
Solario said: A witch hunt implies that it's unearned prosecution. This is someone clearly taking someone else's design (composition, elements, and all) and using [... stuff ...] incarnted plagerists should be shunned, legally prosecuted and shamed.
I'd be all for acknowledging the theft if Mr. Francesco's design itself would have been original, created from scratch. But it is NOT. He took an iconic photograph of Lovecraft and spiced it up his most iconic creation in the background. Like I already pointed out: there's a lot of similar designs out there.
where do YOU get your facts from, if I may ask? clearly, 5 people looking at this picture come to 10 different verdicts whether this s just using the same source, the same idea or if it's in fact, theft? you're calling people liars ... without any evidence at all. you just rushed into this, see what you wanna see and there's your opinion. and whatever you say or do: it's still just your opinion. if Mr. Francesco says: "This design is MINE" that's still not a valid point, it's nothing but a claim, yet to to be proven true. still you point your finger at TeeFury and accuse them of art theft.
my point remains: who are YOU to point your finger at people, calling them "plagerist" [sic]? is it because you THINk so? is it because the artist made a point of agitating people on twitter rather than taking the proper legal steps? yes, that certainly helped. so YES, this IS a witch hunt ... somebody (the artist himself) said "HE'S A WITCH!" and the mob lights up their torches. "yes yes, I see the superficial similarities, whatever: when do we get to the actual witch burning!?"
as far as I am concerned, I see two different designs citing the same sources. nothing more. there is no copyright on putting HP lovevraft in front of Cthulu, which is exactly what happened here. again: nothing more. you're gotta be blind (or willinlgy blind) to say that either design is a copy of the other, they (apart from their initial idea) look nothing alike.
PS: and how do you know who the copyright owner of said photgraph is? could just as well belong to some publisher or other? did you check that? because as far as I know, Lovecraft's books still sell, so I guess somebody secured rights to these pix. just saying ...
tiin said: I would question the artistic sensibilities of anyone who refers to this as plagiarism (or "plagerism" for the functionally illiterate types).
Oh, look - a personal attack. That's certainly strengthening your case.
And Francesco pointed out an act of plagiarism on his twitter; he didn't advice anyone to raise a fuss about it. One would assume that a basic moral code would be a good enough reason to do so.
And Greed? No. Francesco is not printing t-shirts with the design, so the only thing he's doing is protecting his copyright and pointing out blatantly immoral and possibly illegal actions by a major t-shirt website. Don't try to make the corporation the little guy in this.
tiin said: I would question the artistic sensibilities of anyone who refers to this as plagiarism (or "plagerism" for the functionally illiterate types).
Oh, look - a personal attack. That's certainly strengthening your case.
And Francesco pointed out an act of plagiarism on his twitter; he didn't advice anyone to raise a fuss about it. One would assume that a basic moral code would be a good enough reason to do so.
And Greed? No. Francesco is not printing t-shirts with the design, so the only thing he's doing is protecting his copyright and pointing out blatantly immoral and possibly illegal actions by a major t-shirt website. Don't try to make the corporation the little guy in this.
So you really don't think Francesco has a "I want my cut" kind of attitude? He also created an account on here so that he could announce possible pending litigation against Teefury. It was at least implied. And "blatantly immoral" doesn't hold weight here, unless you really believe that Francesco was the only person to ever come up with that idea. Even people who aren't that familiar with Lovecraft easily associate him with two things: books and Cthulu. Not that original. Also based on a photograph, like many have stated.
Could we please get a moderator in here to delete comments made by people who's accounts were all created the day this design released.... and that are all stating the same damned thing, all clearly coming from the same person. It's ridiculous
Tee Fury, I'm surprised you have yet to make a statement regarding this. Sure this shirt is only available for 24 hours but do you realize the damage you are doing to your brand by ignoring it?
Mr Francavilla has thousands of twitter followers, on top of the retweets he will get from other comic book artists and fans who share his stance on what is being done here.
I'm sure you'll just delete this comment, but I hope you read this before you do.
vanessal3000 said: Tee Fury, I'm surprised you have yet to make a statement regarding this. Sure this shirt is only available for 24 hours but do you realize the damage you are doing to your brand by ignoring it?
Mr Francavilla has thousands of twitter followers, on top of the retweets he will get from other comic book artists and fans who share his stance on what is being done here.
I'm sure you'll just delete this comment, but I hope you read this before you do.
It is a picture of H.P Lovecraft with tentacles behind him ... I'm not blind I see the similarities. BUT lets be honest neither of the two artists in question created H.P. Lovecraft (A real person) or Cthulhu (a fictional creature made by Lovecraft).
There are only so many ways you can put these two things into one photograph. Just because they are similar doesn't mean that he stole it.
My take:
The main similarity is in the image of the author. This is because both artists used the same photo of the author as inspiration.
They both used the same idea- The author reading from a book, with his most famous creation looming behind him. This is not a terribly original idea, and has been done before by many artists with many different authors/creators. (It should be noted that Jimiyo has done at least one "creations escaping from a book" design previously)
The only thing that makes this design at all suspicious is the use of one Cthulhu eye on the author. The visual element of one changed eye is one Jimiyo has used in otherdesignsbefore, though, so there's no reason to think it was inspired by Francavilla's design.
I can see why some people would be suspicious, but after looking at all the available evidence, I don't see it as a compelling argument. In art, some themes are hit on a lot, and there's bound to be some degree of repetition. That does not always mean anything was stolen, and in this specific case I don't believe anyone did wrong.
kgullholmen said: it's not a rip-off at all .. it just uses the same source photograph and put Lovecraft and his most famous creation into one picture ... and that's not exactly sooo far off that it couldn't have come to several minds at the same time (and I bet there's more of them out there)
bet won: I mean designs like this or this or even that
vanessal3000 said: Tee Fury, I'm surprised you have yet to make a statement regarding this. Sure this shirt is only available for 24 hours but do you realize the damage you are doing to your brand by ignoring it?
Mr Francavilla has thousands of twitter followers, on top of the retweets he will get from other comic book artists and fans who share his stance on what is being done here.
I'm sure you'll just delete this comment, but I hope you read this before you do.
The thing is. It doesn't do any damage to Teefury.
Sure they may lose a handful of customers, people who can't read, people who are taken in by a tweet simply because the person who posted it is a high-ranking artist.
Anybody can see that the similarities are small at best, at the concept of HP Lovecraft with Cthulu behind him, in that style, based off the photograph, is hardly a copyrighted idea or style.
There's no legal issue here, and I'm afraid Francesco would be laughed out of court if he brought this issue in. It's akin to Bethesda trying to copyright the word Scrolls and prevent Mojang making their game. It's wrong, and I'm frankly tired of people trying to sue or complain or even threaten either just because of a fleeting similarity to their own product.
It's frankly pathetic, and you may say that Teefury will lose customers over this, but I say that Francesco will lose a lot of respect.
http://fusionanomaly.net/hplovecraft2.jpg
Take this picture ... use the same art style of sketchlines
Keep these ideas in mind
Tentacles, Monsters, Madness, Writer
You're GOING to come up with something that you can get a lot of flack for ... because there is only so many ways to represent that.
Maybe everyone should just get famous with no references at all, that'll be a fun game, don't ever reference any other creation ... someone else start.
I don't have much to do tonight.
I may dedicate my time to arguing with people such as yourself who've clearly only just joined to argue about a shirt.
Assuming you're a Francesco fan, and thus have a blinkered view of the designs...and therefore completely ignoring the fact that the designs aren't similar and it's CLEARLY not stolen.
RiotDemon said: The similarities are basically if they were both told to draw Lovecraft with a book and a monster.. its a shame but I don't know if I would call it a blatant ripoff.
I agree. Lovecraft looks very similar in both pictures, but the rest is different enough. I bought it anyway bc I LOVE Lovecraft and Cthulhu. :)
Solario said: Oh, look - a personal attack. That's certainly strengthening your case.
And Francesco pointed out an act of plagiarism on his twitter; he didn't advice anyone to raise a fuss about it. One would assume that a basic moral code would be a good enough reason to do so.
And Greed? No. Francesco is not printing t-shirts with the design, so the only thing he's doing is protecting his copyright and pointing out blatantly immoral and possibly illegal actions by a major t-shirt website. Don't try to make the corporation the little guy in this.
Posting the link was so very obviously a call to rally an angry mob. An unrealistic degree of naïveté is required to believe otherwise. Any "basic moral code" is worthless without some modiBoldlyGo of intelligence to guide it. There's nothing even close to illegal about selling this shirt, and anyone who still believes this image was "stolen" after so many links to similar images have been posted is being willfully ignorant at this point. Lovecraft + tentacles was hardly an original concept six years ago. Also, the idea that TeeFury is some all-powerful corporation is beyond absurd.
Oh, and advise is the word for which you were so helplessly groping.
I LOVE this design. It is similar to Francesco's, but as someone pointed out earlier...if someone said to draw Lovecraft holding a book with Cthulhu behind him, they would be similar, but it is a different interpretation. Also, my husband has a killer Cthulhu tattoo chest piece, and it is very similar to the depiction of Cthulhu in this picture. I bought the shirt for him. :)
I can't buy it because of lack of funds right now. After reading the comments though, I'm tempted to buy it just to mess with all these complainers and rabble-rousers.
The shirt is fantastic. It's not the most original design, no, but neither is Francesco's. Putting H.P.'s face in front of Cthulhu or a mass of tentacles is a piece than been done and replicated again and again for a while now. Some examples:
I can go on and on ad nauseum here, but the point is none of these artists are sending up red flags over this. Franky needs to quit whining and so do all his lemmings. If he seriously felt stolen from, there are more mature ways to handle the situation than stirring up a hornets nest.
I would like to add that if there was an actual plagiarism case here, Francesco Francavilla would have had his lawyers contact TeeFury with a cease and desist request.
Instead, his only option is to sick his fans onto the comments section.
I'm happy with MJs take on this. I, too, thought that the only truly suspicious similarity was the changed eye and even that is not so terribly "original" that it couldn't have been come up with independently. (Although, for the record, still midly suspicious over here...;)
The only real shame is that Jimiyo didn't sufficiently google around to see whether the idea had been done so we could've avoided this mess. :)
I found teefury a month ago and have checked it each day for the one special shirt to be my first purchase. This was easily the best one I've seen yet, and I scooped it up without hesitation. Awesome piece.
Pandora69 said: I LOVE this design. It is similar to Francesco's, but as someone pointed out earlier...if someone said to draw Lovecraft holding a book with Cthulhu behind him, they would be similar, but it is a different interpretation. Also, my husband has a killer Cthulhu tattoo chest piece, and it is very similar to the depiction of Cthulhu in this picture. I bought the shirt for him. :)
I've been a fan of this design since before it was completed, and I've always loved it. I always hoped it would come to Teefury and now that it has I'm disappointed you did it in this color. I would have bought it had it been a less disgusting green, it's really too bad.
To the tee fury crowd, I got some MEDIUM shirts in grab bag that I'm willing to trade.
8/22 I aim to misbehave
8/10 Winchester Bros Racing
7/30 Intersect Dev Team
I'm actually willing to do a three for one if you have something really tasty (Lo Pan's Chinese Food would do it lol) But I'm willing to talk. Drop a message here if you're down to do some swappin!
And for the copyright infringement issue please lay off its a similar idea if I went and said that one of the new popular bands was steeling on of my bass lines that was based on Pink Floyd I'd be laughed at and then beaten then laugheed at again grow up kiddies life is unfair just pick it up and move on.
I absolutely adore TeeFury. I buy many shirts from this website; hell, my wardrobe is practically filled with 'em. So I say this as a die-hard fan: this act of plagiarism is shameful, and casts doubt on your entire enterprise. I won't lie and say that I'll never buy another shirt here again. But I'll think twice about it next time, and wonder if I should give my money to someone who doesn't mind stealing the work of others.
Similar, but not identical.
This print looks much better than the T-shirt offered by the other guy. I'd rather spend $10 on a shirt that has a print large enough to see from across the room than a 5" print only visible through a magnifying glass.
Francesco needs to find a better printer if he wants his sh*t noticed. Instead of chasing down anyone who draws anything similar to the photograph he copied.
@Prefect01: Unless I'm blind, I'm pretty sure there's a few more similarities than just the fact that they seem to have both used the same photograph of Lovecraft as a reference.
I mean, come on. If some of you are going to argue that a guy is out of line for accusing another artist of plagiarism, at least have the decency to acknowledge more than one aspect of the similarities.
The thing that bothers me the most is the right-eye detail.
I mean, let's look at this:
Tentacles behind centered, forward-facing portrait? Perfectly understandable that multiple people might come up with that.
Same photo reference? Perfectly understandable.
Same shading technique? Possible it was a fluke.
Same right eye peculiarity? Suspicious.
I personally want to give both artists the benefit of the doubt while acknowledging that, at the very least, they're strikingly similar pieces.
There are enough similarities between this design and Francesco Francavilla's design to make a strong argument that there has been copyright infringement here; which doesn't need to mean an exact copy was made (copyright infringement does not equal plagiarism). If the secondary work is not original enough, *legally* (not just according to what People on the Internet think), then it would not qualify as a transformative work, and the secondary "creator" would likely be found to have infringed on the primary creator's work.
On a related subject, why are so many people here deriding Francavilla for pointing out that his work has been (arguably) infringed on? It's his right under law, and certainly not childish or laughable. His art is his livelihood, akin to the way a builder's buildings would be his livelihood. If someone were to come along and damage a building, would people chide the builder for wanting to seek reparations? Similarly, if someone comes along and damages an artist's profession by creating a similar piece that appears to have used an original work, the original creator should justifiably be looking out for his rights and defending them; including by speaking out publicly as well as going through whatever legal channels he might choose.
I suggest people check into copyright law more closely before they form an opinion as to whether something might be copyright infringement; including looking at what courts have decided in similar cases. Otherwise, any opinion posted here is just an uninformed guess at the law.
My take:
The main similarity is in the image of the author. This is because both artists used the same photo of the author as inspiration.
They both used the same idea- The author reading from a book, with his most famous creation looming behind him. This is not a terribly original idea, and has been done before by many artists with many different authors/creators. (It should be noted that Jimiyo has done at least one "creations escaping from a book" design previously)
The only thing that makes this design at all suspicious is the use of one Cthulhu eye on the author. The visual element of one changed eye is one Jimiyo has used in otherdesignsbefore, though, so there's no reason to think it was inspired by Francavilla's design.
I can see why some people would be suspicious, but after looking at all the available evidence, I don't see it as a compelling argument. In art, some themes are hit on a lot, and there's bound to be some degree of repetition. That does not always mean anything was stolen, and in this specific case I don't believe anyone did wrong.
emilyesse said: I suggest people check into copyright law more closely before they form an opinion as to whether something might be copyright infringement; including looking at what courts have decided in similar cases. Otherwise, any opinion posted here is just an uninformed guess at the law.
I'd suggest becoming a bit more familiar with copyright law yourself before you go dishing out advice, as you clearly have no real grasp on the terminology used in your post. You've made yourself the epitome of your, "people on the internet." It's obvious that both artists used the same public domain photograph as the basis for their works, and the rest of the drawing is strikingly different. One has a creature coming through a wall; the other has a creature hovering behind the author. One has a book on a table; one has the author holding the book in his hands. The accuser's creature is not making physical contact with the author; the image here shows tentacles wrapped around him. That's to say nothing of the glaringly obvious differences in the drawing styles. "Transformative work" does not apply here, nor is there any basis to make a "strong argument." Once again, Lovecraft + tentacles was not a wholly original, never-been-done idea six years ago.
You can either take this opportunity to learn from someone more knowledgeable than yourself or continue pretending like you know everything.
Teefury, don't you dare refund and pull back this one! It is so not a case of plagiarism, if nothing else there's a space cockroach behind Lovecraft which is not the case for Francesco piece, plus we have voted for this months ago - where were the chest-beating self-righteous Francesca fanbois back then? It is so sad to see full blown troll attack on teefury :(
@MJ-Don't think it could have been put any better or eloquently. People share in the same thoughts of thing subconsciously and unconsciously all the time. It's amazing coincidence, but I think if there were more evidence pointing towards the piece as a complete instance of plagiarism, that would be quite different.
In any case, I ordered the shirt, I am looking forward to it.
Francavilla said: This is a blatant rip-off of my design http://www.francescofrancavilla.com/gallery/hp_lovecraft.html and both the artist and teefury will hear from my legal.
Francesco Francavilla
LOL you signed up to start a movement in order to support your art by accusing teefury of stealing yours. How pathetic...
WANT TO WIN A LASER ENGRAVED MOLESKINE? Scroll down for details.
Tell us about the design: I didn't know anything about Cthulhu or Lovecraft until Missmonster sold a Cthulhu shirt with us. I started to investigate and oh my, what a delight! Creatures and creepy things! Lovecraft is a madman of imagination. While watching District 9 (see the alien resemblance?) I was inspired to create this design. It's not a far fetch from prawns to a tentacled monster. I thought it would be cool to represent Lovecraft as a monster as well, as his mind is the father of monstrosities.(see his hand and eyeball)
Tell us about yourself: Well, it's been a while since I've had a shirt sold through Teefury. I am the art director round this wilderness we call the Fury, so if you don't like a shirt on Teefury, it's my fault. I'm also one of the admins on Facebook. I'm the one who occasionally misspells things because of my flagrant disregard for social conventions. You can't hold me down with your... grammer and rules!
Anything else? Yes. YOU CAN WIN. I had this design engraved on a leather cover for a moleskine. One person will WIN it. How?
Sabriel666said 34 weeks ago
Cheshysaid 34 weeks ago
JallaJsaid 34 weeks ago
YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES
YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES
YESYESYESYESYESYES!
sponzysaid 34 weeks ago
mossygreensaid 34 weeks ago
Zaqsaid 34 weeks ago
Eohnavisaid 34 weeks ago
shinji13said 34 weeks ago
Samsonsaid 34 weeks ago
blu74omegasaid 34 weeks ago
chaos0xomegasaid 34 weeks ago
reynnorsaid 34 weeks ago
Platinusaid 34 weeks ago
mrpapayasaid 34 weeks ago
dexysaid 34 weeks ago
lemonbar77said 34 weeks ago
writerrobertsaid 34 weeks ago
MattZsaid 34 weeks ago
queso6p4said 34 weeks ago
swanqueensaid 34 weeks ago
rachelvioletsaid 34 weeks ago
Just remove the %20 at the end of the link!
MJsaid 34 weeks ago
go_mifunesaid 34 weeks ago
Pleeeaaasss....
swanqueensaid 34 weeks ago
try here: https://www.facebook.com/#!/jimiyoart
kikajesssaid 34 weeks ago
GatsbyGalsaid 34 weeks ago
khazekstansaid 34 weeks ago
Dampyllesaid 34 weeks ago
grey_sterlingsaid 34 weeks ago
Jamey37said 34 weeks ago
Slothsaid 34 weeks ago
gWrath89said 34 weeks ago
Bolockosaid 34 weeks ago
drewcpsaid 34 weeks ago
RedRaven219said 34 weeks ago
monevjacksaid 34 weeks ago
Enntacularsaid 34 weeks ago
MJsaid 34 weeks ago
Spazgirlsaid 34 weeks ago
Constrositysaid 34 weeks ago
Drunkycrowsaid 34 weeks ago
RevChucksaid 34 weeks ago
Instant purchase!
Thank you very much!!!
jcasticksaid 34 weeks ago
lilylemonysaid 34 weeks ago
cmgemplersaid 34 weeks ago
joeruschesaid 34 weeks ago
ohcarararasaid 34 weeks ago
Because if it is, awesome! If not, a little too similar for me to be comfortable buying.
infidel220said 34 weeks ago
Chajikosaid 34 weeks ago
DorkZombiesaid 34 weeks ago
amisunshinesaid 34 weeks ago
This is a fantastically done design. Best one I've seen on here in a long while.
herc1990said 34 weeks ago
Spiralmindsaid 34 weeks ago
ienjoyeditsaid 34 weeks ago
xTripwirexsaid 34 weeks ago
Captain Deadmansaid 34 weeks ago
YakFacesaid 34 weeks ago
nightrippersaid 34 weeks ago
runnerndasaid 34 weeks ago
Also, love the shirt but a bit too busy for my taste.
animenay100said 34 weeks ago
NEED. SHIRT.
MUST. HAVE.
DEATH. WITHOUT. SHIRT.
SOMEONE PLEASE DONATE TO ME!? I'M SO BROKE, IT'S ONLY SLIGHTLY HUMOROUS!!! (and I don't mean the vitreous humor)
Javnasaid 34 weeks ago
adamwagnersaid 34 weeks ago
splicersaid 34 weeks ago
MrRoflWafflesaid 34 weeks ago
gendo666said 34 weeks ago
Demorielsaid 34 weeks ago
Captain_Cadaversaid 34 weeks ago
Ahrimalsaid 34 weeks ago
Ahrimalsaid 34 weeks ago
HobbitNinjasaid 34 weeks ago
Elyesissaid 34 weeks ago
Sigmoundsaid 34 weeks ago
Great One !
cidermansaid 34 weeks ago
Hmm, that should a line in that Billy Joel record!
dethadorsaid 34 weeks ago
RubyRedTeessaid 34 weeks ago
kgullholmensaid 34 weeks ago
also I think it's great to see every once in a while that the people who decide things around here aren't just businesmen, but artists of their own. gives their decisions a certain weight, I guess
noelpennsaid 34 weeks ago
minionsaid 33 weeks ago
ZombieJPsaid 33 weeks ago
R-evolution GFXsaid 33 weeks ago
Skrekkuglesaid 33 weeks ago
katiesesslersaid 33 weeks ago
h0p3ysaid 33 weeks ago
xAVENG3Rxsaid 33 weeks ago
Francavillasaid 33 weeks ago
Francesco Francavilla
my_funky_selfsaid 33 weeks ago
LaFrahsaid 33 weeks ago
Mojohsaid 33 weeks ago
> Solario : it is disturbing. If Jimiyo could enter the arena and tell us a bit more about that...
RiotDemonsaid 33 weeks ago
KillJillsaid 33 weeks ago
tonersaid 33 weeks ago
Windsrocksaid 33 weeks ago
Windsrocksaid 33 weeks ago
SOTIsaid 33 weeks ago
noelpennsaid 33 weeks ago
Will you stop posting as different ppl.. please.
talthussaid 33 weeks ago
kgullholmensaid 33 weeks ago
if you have any problem with the design or you feel like any copyright issues might ensue ... act like a grown-up and talk to TeeFury's service department instead of joining TeeFury under two gazillion names and spamming the fork out of this place.
you. are. annoying! we got it the first time. somebody made a drawing of Lovecraft with Chtulu in the background ... big deal. oh - did you give the photographer of Lovecraft's original portrait any credits?
did you?
I didn't think so.
now either voice your concerns to the poeple in charge or stay silent ... but don't try to agitate people in a angry-child-tearing-a-napkin manner. that's embarrassing
Watchersaid 33 weeks ago
http://www.francescofrancavilla.com/gallery/hp_lovecraft.html
merrypranxtRsaid 33 weeks ago
zerobriantsaid 33 weeks ago
Shazam5said 33 weeks ago
http://www.francescofrancavilla.com/gallery/hp_lovecraft.html
wringzsaid 33 weeks ago
kurtkurtkurtsaid 33 weeks ago
http://www.francescofrancavilla.com/gallery/hp_lovecraft.html
wringzsaid 33 weeks ago
wow, it makes me feel better about this purchase too! thanks!
Battlefoxessaid 33 weeks ago
lindsymnstersaid 33 weeks ago
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs51/f/2009/259/e/e/Weird_Fiction_by_drakxxx.jpg
Skrikersaid 33 weeks ago
itsbeccasaid 33 weeks ago
Aqualecsaid 33 weeks ago
SOTIsaid 33 weeks ago
I don't know who Solario/Francavilla are, but the above was my first post ever. I am very new to teefury, having only purchased 1 shirt so far. I like the above design, but if you copy/paste the URL, you will see what I am talking about. He didn't even really change the image! I am an artist myself, among other things, and I know if someone made a t-shirt using such a close image to my original, I'd be upset. I've also used th "contact us" option to let teefury know of the possible copyright infringement.
BeaKayesaid 33 weeks ago
itsbeccasaid 33 weeks ago
Also, your photo comment is just the silliness. Anything prior to 1923 is in the public domain and Lovecraft *died* in 1937. (As someone who only uses art legally, I'm aware of such things.)
Sampsa_Gsaid 33 weeks ago
noelpennsaid 33 weeks ago
SMWilkinsonsaid 33 weeks ago
kgullholmensaid 33 weeks ago
first: that's neither true nor would change a thing: it's still someone else's photograph, if you're so keen on naming sources, you would have to include that one as well, no matter if it's free or not. I couldn't just quote Hamlet without saying it's Shakespeare's words, not mine.
other than that I wouldn't wanna deny Francavilla his creativity or anything, I was mostly pointing out that there is obvious trolling going on here, a "lot of people" who joined today just to post the same link over and over again? c'mon ... that's ridiculous and you know it.
this and everything I said in the above comment ... THAT's my point!
kuhansaid 33 weeks ago
kuhansaid 33 weeks ago
GeekToMesaid 33 weeks ago
"Inspired by District 9" indeed. For shame!
bomtronsaid 33 weeks ago
radardogsaid 33 weeks ago
D4N13Lsaid 33 weeks ago
choptopsaid 33 weeks ago
kgullholmensaid 33 weeks ago
bet won: I mean designs like this or this or even that
ryanhiltsaid 33 weeks ago
choptopsaid 33 weeks ago
Iriensaid 33 weeks ago
http://www.francescofrancavilla.com/gallery/hp_lovecraft.html
Seriously weak, man.
MandalorianMsaid 33 weeks ago
Hey can I have a really cool new Star Wars t-shirt before Fan Days please Teefury?
gojiratohosaid 33 weeks ago
http://copylaw.com/new_articles/PublicDomain.html
Any and all works created in the United States prior to 1923 that were not revised are part of the public domain. So yes kgullholmen, it is true. The photo can be used without permission/citation to create a derivative or interpretative work (which can then be copyrighted).
Try doing a little googling on a subject before you call someone a liar. Failing to do so just makes you look the fool.
itsbeccasaid 33 weeks ago
I appreciate the non aggressive tone, though I do have to point out that citing sources in a paper and artistic copyright are completely different. One is a photograph from an artist who is quite likely dead, and if it is in the public domain it is legally available to use in it's entirety without citation. That doesn't mean you can say "I took this photograph!", but you can print the work as is or use the work within your own art. Google LHOOQ for an example.
So the above explanation is very much unlike using a composition that is copyrighted 6 years ago by an alive and well artist. Even if jimiyo drew the art from scratch, which he very well may have in order to add the beasty hands and alien head, if he's copying the idea and composition from someone else's work it's still a breech of copyright. Changing a few details is not the point,one of the only ways to legally get away with it is parady (Which teefury rides on a lot) but by actively denying the source material that bridge is done burned ya'll.
(And the other pictures you posted are similar thematically, but in composition... not that much. Jimiyo's and Francavilla's; with the tentacles splaying out directly behind the head, the book and the deformed eye; are so close I had to *actively* look for the differences.)
Puffologicsaid 33 weeks ago
...yup.
Ujn Huntersaid 33 weeks ago
Yomikosaid 33 weeks ago
Zom.Bsaid 33 weeks ago
alviritosaid 33 weeks ago
Solariosaid 33 weeks ago
The reason everyone joined up today is because Francesco posted about it on his twitter account today and the art community generally hates a plagerist.
It's, however, very interesting that instead of attack the argument that the drawing is plagerism, you decided to attack my, and others, character. So you apparently agree with the assessment; you just don't like us?
Sanzensaid 33 weeks ago
kgullholmensaid 33 weeks ago
that being said: I wasn't talking about copyright issues in my first comment about all this. I merely pointed out that a lot of user names suddenly appeared out of nowhere stating the same thing over and over again. that's trolling and it's annoying.
and in my second comment I basically said: it doesn't matter if it's LEGAL or not, if you're so keen on presenting sources, you'd gotta have to give the photographer credit - no matter whether he's dead, undead or whatever ... you still didn't create this picture. and implying you did in fact create this picture by declaring that something else using the same source is a rip-off of YOUR work ... now that's ... that's ... presumptuous I guess.
I still don't see how using a certain photograph for reference is any more creative than using the very same photograph ... for (wait for it!) reference. it's VERY obvious concept (see the images I linked earlier) based on the same sources, therefore similarities are inevitable
but yeah, folks, just keep on trollin' ... you gotta get your ego from somewhere, why not the internet :o*
cammyknoxsaid 33 weeks ago
The fact that people have been complaining for the past 12 hours and it's STILL up tells me you're turning a blind eye, and continuing on no questions asked as long as it makes you a few extra bucks.
The design needs to come down, and you need to send an apology to Mr. Francavilla. I'm very disgusted with you all right now.
Prestonsaid 33 weeks ago
tresdean333said 33 weeks ago
It's a shame, because I'd love a shirt with Francavilla's original design, but I won't buy a plagarized version.
Solariosaid 33 weeks ago
Trolling implies that I'm doing this solely to illicit an emotional response without any other reason. Of course, what I (and others) are doing is punish a plagerist by shaming him (because apparently TeeFury isn't doing anything and legal actions take more than a day) and advising others to steer clear of this site because it promotes theft.
In regards to your complaint about Francesco not citing the photography, whereby he procured the likeness: it's in public domain. End of discussion. The photographer is dead and his copyright has expired. Plus, Francesco transfered the image from one medium (photography) to another (drawing). These three reasons alone underline why the circumstances are not the same.
The point is: unrepentent, incarnted plagerists should be shunned, legally prosecuted and shamed.
ilsevilsesaid 33 weeks ago
NerdRage42said 33 weeks ago
crunchedsaid 33 weeks ago
I then also decided to look up other illustrations of Lovecraft and Cthulhu and found that it's a rather popular composition. (Or similar aspects, imo.)
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/coc/Site/howard_phillips_lovecraft.jpg
http://snoopymd.deviantart.com/art/HP-Lovecraft-and-Cthulhu-194376565
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqng40UoLr1qf83cro1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1317139722&Signature=sUT07hY06ZpUklmY4mVvLIVobTU%3D
http://i45.tinypic.com/la03l.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn148/unity_mask/lovecraft_garypullin-thumb-400x517.jpg
I know these aren't as similar as the two up above by jimyo and Francesco, but the common aspects between them make it a possibility that it was a coincidence. I dunno if it was, but hey.
Sorry :(
Robsoulsaid 33 weeks ago
A buy fo sho. Will have to get two, for me and my buddy, who absolutely loves Lovecraft.
Taargussaid 33 weeks ago
skullboy25said 33 weeks ago
See for yourself at:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/26/swipe-file-francesco-vs-jamio/
andyhuntsaid 33 weeks ago
BulletToothDrewsaid 33 weeks ago
Taargussaid 33 weeks ago
ihatemydentsaid 33 weeks ago
cassiolemossaid 33 weeks ago
I'm trying to buy the shirt, but when I place the order, this error occurs:
Tried many times. I'm paying with paypal, and have enough money there. And credit card is not an option for me right now.
Any help?
tiinsaid 33 weeks ago
And Francavilla, the best your attorneys could do is send an empty C&D letter. There are no grounds for any serious legal action here, as I'm sure you'll discover upon speaking with your representation.
The Royal Wesaid 33 weeks ago
scott_cohnsaid 33 weeks ago
http://www.francescofrancavilla.com/gallery/hp_lovecraft.html
Comicazesaid 33 weeks ago
Myrdrethsaid 33 weeks ago
bankrunsaid 33 weeks ago
I'm not a fan of the macabre, but was I, this would be a shirt I'd wear, so I'm buying for someone else.
One side in this debate says; pointing guns at people and stealing money is okay to protect ideas. If this where the case in all intellectual property; there would be little building of thought to begin with. Most people are just echoing borrowed wit anyway. Would they be thought plagiarizers? Should they also be sued over this supposed property right?
If you look closer at the eye; it's different too.
Just curious what monster of H.P. Lovecraft has a clawed hand like that?
zombiemastersaid 33 weeks ago
No this is not the same artist. As far as I am concerned, there has been some "theft" going on here.
Here's the Twiiter feed of the artist who did your poster: http://twitter.com/#!/f_francavilla
Conorsaid 33 weeks ago
Are you all blind?
The similarities between the two pieces are minimal. The composition and shape of the face comes purely from the photograph and the background elements have very little in common.
There's 1000's of art pieces and t-shirts designed every minute, it's inevitable that some pieces will look slightly similar but people claiming it's stolen and the like are clearly jumping on the bandwagon and/or can't see.
It's not theft.
It's not even that similar.
Calm down kids.
DanaeMarie483said 33 weeks ago
Taargussaid 33 weeks ago
Francesco himself started all this drama. And he's not a child, he's a full grown adult. All it boils down to is greed. Money makes the world go round. That's why I like buying cheap Teeshirts on Teefury! FTW!
ZombieYetisaid 33 weeks ago
Mysteriosaid 33 weeks ago
ZombieYetisaid 33 weeks ago
ZombieYetisaid 33 weeks ago
Mysteriosaid 33 weeks ago
So what? Get another black shirt! Besides, who cares if the shirt is black...the design is the star, anyways!
Comicazesaid 33 weeks ago
kgullholmensaid 33 weeks ago
I'd be all for acknowledging the theft if Mr. Francesco's design itself would have been original, created from scratch. But it is NOT. He took an iconic photograph of Lovecraft and spiced it up his most iconic creation in the background. Like I already pointed out: there's a lot of similar designs out there.
where do YOU get your facts from, if I may ask? clearly, 5 people looking at this picture come to 10 different verdicts whether this s just using the same source, the same idea or if it's in fact, theft? you're calling people liars ... without any evidence at all. you just rushed into this, see what you wanna see and there's your opinion. and whatever you say or do: it's still just your opinion. if Mr. Francesco says: "This design is MINE" that's still not a valid point, it's nothing but a claim, yet to to be proven true. still you point your finger at TeeFury and accuse them of art theft.
my point remains: who are YOU to point your finger at people, calling them "plagerist" [sic]? is it because you THINk so? is it because the artist made a point of agitating people on twitter rather than taking the proper legal steps? yes, that certainly helped. so YES, this IS a witch hunt ... somebody (the artist himself) said "HE'S A WITCH!" and the mob lights up their torches. "yes yes, I see the superficial similarities, whatever: when do we get to the actual witch burning!?"
as far as I am concerned, I see two different designs citing the same sources. nothing more. there is no copyright on putting HP lovevraft in front of Cthulu, which is exactly what happened here. again: nothing more. you're gotta be blind (or willinlgy blind) to say that either design is a copy of the other, they (apart from their initial idea) look nothing alike.
PS: and how do you know who the copyright owner of said photgraph is? could just as well belong to some publisher or other? did you check that? because as far as I know, Lovecraft's books still sell, so I guess somebody secured rights to these pix. just saying ...
adamarmoursaid 33 weeks ago
Solariosaid 33 weeks ago
Oh, look - a personal attack. That's certainly strengthening your case.
And Francesco pointed out an act of plagiarism on his twitter; he didn't advice anyone to raise a fuss about it. One would assume that a basic moral code would be a good enough reason to do so.
And Greed? No. Francesco is not printing t-shirts with the design, so the only thing he's doing is protecting his copyright and pointing out blatantly immoral and possibly illegal actions by a major t-shirt website. Don't try to make the corporation the little guy in this.
sleestaksaid 33 weeks ago
ZombieYetisaid 33 weeks ago
Azalzalsaid 33 weeks ago
Taargussaid 33 weeks ago
So you really don't think Francesco has a "I want my cut" kind of attitude? He also created an account on here so that he could announce possible pending litigation against Teefury. It was at least implied. And "blatantly immoral" doesn't hold weight here, unless you really believe that Francesco was the only person to ever come up with that idea. Even people who aren't that familiar with Lovecraft easily associate him with two things: books and Cthulu. Not that original. Also based on a photograph, like many have stated.
Ahrimalsaid 33 weeks ago
bunnydancesaid 33 weeks ago
Ahrimalsaid 33 weeks ago
Hirandevsaid 33 weeks ago
I am in deep serious love with it, I want it's babies.
Lovecraft forever! ;D
vanessal3000said 33 weeks ago
Mr Francavilla has thousands of twitter followers, on top of the retweets he will get from other comic book artists and fans who share his stance on what is being done here.
I'm sure you'll just delete this comment, but I hope you read this before you do.
JimGibbonssaid 33 weeks ago
Agreed. Shameful.
vanessal3000said 33 weeks ago
JimGibbonssaid 33 weeks ago
Amen, Vanessa. Fight that good fight!
Gwenstacyfansaid 33 weeks ago
NickPsaid 33 weeks ago
There are only so many ways you can put these two things into one photograph. Just because they are similar doesn't mean that he stole it.
MJsaid 33 weeks ago
My take:
The main similarity is in the image of the author. This is because both artists used the same photo of the author as inspiration.
They both used the same idea- The author reading from a book, with his most famous creation looming behind him. This is not a terribly original idea, and has been done before by many artists with many different authors/creators. (It should be noted that Jimiyo has done at least one "creations escaping from a book" design previously)
The only thing that makes this design at all suspicious is the use of one Cthulhu eye on the author. The visual element of one changed eye is one Jimiyo has used in other designs before, though, so there's no reason to think it was inspired by Francavilla's design.
I can see why some people would be suspicious, but after looking at all the available evidence, I don't see it as a compelling argument. In art, some themes are hit on a lot, and there's bound to be some degree of repetition. That does not always mean anything was stolen, and in this specific case I don't believe anyone did wrong.
Kirsesaid 33 weeks ago
THANK YOU! I agree completelety with this.
Conorsaid 33 weeks ago
The thing is. It doesn't do any damage to Teefury.
Sure they may lose a handful of customers, people who can't read, people who are taken in by a tweet simply because the person who posted it is a high-ranking artist.
Anybody can see that the similarities are small at best, at the concept of HP Lovecraft with Cthulu behind him, in that style, based off the photograph, is hardly a copyrighted idea or style.
There's no legal issue here, and I'm afraid Francesco would be laughed out of court if he brought this issue in. It's akin to Bethesda trying to copyright the word Scrolls and prevent Mojang making their game. It's wrong, and I'm frankly tired of people trying to sue or complain or even threaten either just because of a fleeting similarity to their own product.
It's frankly pathetic, and you may say that Teefury will lose customers over this, but I say that Francesco will lose a lot of respect.
kgullholmensaid 33 weeks ago
DorkZombiesaid 33 weeks ago
Take this picture ... use the same art style of sketchlines
Keep these ideas in mind
Tentacles, Monsters, Madness, Writer
You're GOING to come up with something that you can get a lot of flack for ... because there is only so many ways to represent that.
Maybe everyone should just get famous with no references at all, that'll be a fun game, don't ever reference any other creation ... someone else start.
MadMaxesaid 33 weeks ago
opeth31said 33 weeks ago
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/26/rancesco-francavilla-teefury-lovecraft/
whiskeybusinesssaid 33 weeks ago
Also- I'd kill a small child for that moleskin.
Conorsaid 33 weeks ago
I don't have much to do tonight.
I may dedicate my time to arguing with people such as yourself who've clearly only just joined to argue about a shirt.
Assuming you're a Francesco fan, and thus have a blinkered view of the designs...and therefore completely ignoring the fact that the designs aren't similar and it's CLEARLY not stolen.
Have a nice day.
Pandora69said 33 weeks ago
I agree. Lovecraft looks very similar in both pictures, but the rest is different enough. I bought it anyway bc I LOVE Lovecraft and Cthulhu. :)
tiinsaid 33 weeks ago
Oh, and advise is the word for which you were so helplessly groping.
Pandora69said 33 weeks ago
MadMaxesaid 33 weeks ago
The shirt is fantastic. It's not the most original design, no, but neither is Francesco's. Putting H.P.'s face in front of Cthulhu or a mass of tentacles is a piece than been done and replicated again and again for a while now. Some examples:
http://heyoscarwilde.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/timm_lovecraft3.jpg
http://medox.deviantart.com/art/H-P-Lovecraft-211537154
http://valzonline.deviantart.com/art/Homage-to-Lovecraft-189038668?q=boost%3Apopular%20lovecraft&qo=7
http://creepyseb.deviantart.com/art/H-P-Lovecraft-121680736?q=boost%3Apopular%20lovecraft&qo=34
http://bov9.deviantart.com/art/Lovecraft-70757132?q=boost%3Apopular%20lovecraft&qo=20
http://mygrimmbrother.deviantart.com/art/Lovecraft-and-friends-190232182?q=boost%3Apopular%20lovecraft&qo=71
I can go on and on ad nauseum here, but the point is none of these artists are sending up red flags over this. Franky needs to quit whining and so do all his lemmings. If he seriously felt stolen from, there are more mature ways to handle the situation than stirring up a hornets nest.
donnie336said 33 weeks ago
radardogsaid 33 weeks ago
Hirathasaid 33 weeks ago
The only real shame is that Jimiyo didn't sufficiently google around to see whether the idea had been done so we could've avoided this mess. :)
jawamannsaid 33 weeks ago
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/26/rancesco-francavilla-teefury-lovecraft/
corechaossaid 33 weeks ago
toyman2581said 33 weeks ago
I Looooovecraft it so much.
corechaossaid 33 weeks ago
Want to see tattoo!
downsetsaid 33 weeks ago
iboy314said 33 weeks ago
Munchkinbsaid 33 weeks ago
whatevs555said 33 weeks ago
kimeistersaid 33 weeks ago
pjpramsaid 33 weeks ago
Sanzensaid 33 weeks ago
BillyBlacksaid 33 weeks ago
To the tee fury crowd, I got some MEDIUM shirts in grab bag that I'm willing to trade.
8/22 I aim to misbehave
8/10 Winchester Bros Racing
7/30 Intersect Dev Team
I'm actually willing to do a three for one if you have something really tasty (Lo Pan's Chinese Food would do it lol) But I'm willing to talk. Drop a message here if you're down to do some swappin!
FIGNUTS!!!
xenoqwerpsaid 33 weeks ago
morbidprognysaid 33 weeks ago
Crazy_Yetisaid 33 weeks ago
sawhandssaid 33 weeks ago
sawhandssaid 33 weeks ago
pyromanicsaid 33 weeks ago
RedThundersaid 33 weeks ago
RedThundersaid 33 weeks ago
RedThundersaid 33 weeks ago
I also agree with this and that it also looks like the squid monster from LOTR than the original!
Prefect01said 33 weeks ago
"The most merciful thing in the world... is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents."
HPL
cjreevessaid 33 weeks ago
HeadHuntersaid 33 weeks ago
Loosifrsaid 33 weeks ago
Bloochstersaid 33 weeks ago
AlexTammarosaid 33 weeks ago
Connor20said 33 weeks ago
CaptMalsaid 33 weeks ago
Prefect01said 33 weeks ago
This print looks much better than the T-shirt offered by the other guy. I'd rather spend $10 on a shirt that has a print large enough to see from across the room than a 5" print only visible through a magnifying glass.
Francesco needs to find a better printer if he wants his sh*t noticed. Instead of chasing down anyone who draws anything similar to the photograph he copied.
SenatorSexysaid 33 weeks ago
Zekumisaid 33 weeks ago
I mean, come on. If some of you are going to argue that a guy is out of line for accusing another artist of plagiarism, at least have the decency to acknowledge more than one aspect of the similarities.
The thing that bothers me the most is the right-eye detail.
I mean, let's look at this:
Tentacles behind centered, forward-facing portrait? Perfectly understandable that multiple people might come up with that.
Same photo reference? Perfectly understandable.
Same shading technique? Possible it was a fluke.
Same right eye peculiarity? Suspicious.
I personally want to give both artists the benefit of the doubt while acknowledging that, at the very least, they're strikingly similar pieces.
skylyresaid 33 weeks ago
Micahsaid 33 weeks ago
emilyessesaid 33 weeks ago
On a related subject, why are so many people here deriding Francavilla for pointing out that his work has been (arguably) infringed on? It's his right under law, and certainly not childish or laughable. His art is his livelihood, akin to the way a builder's buildings would be his livelihood. If someone were to come along and damage a building, would people chide the builder for wanting to seek reparations? Similarly, if someone comes along and damages an artist's profession by creating a similar piece that appears to have used an original work, the original creator should justifiably be looking out for his rights and defending them; including by speaking out publicly as well as going through whatever legal channels he might choose.
I suggest people check into copyright law more closely before they form an opinion as to whether something might be copyright infringement; including looking at what courts have decided in similar cases. Otherwise, any opinion posted here is just an uninformed guess at the law.
Adorusaid 33 weeks ago
MJsaid 33 weeks ago
For the record, Jimiyo posted this image in response to the controversy: http://twitpic.com/6qxxoq
My take:
The main similarity is in the image of the author. This is because both artists used the same photo of the author as inspiration.
They both used the same idea- The author reading from a book, with his most famous creation looming behind him. This is not a terribly original idea, and has been done before by many artists with many different authors/creators. (It should be noted that Jimiyo has done at least one "creations escaping from a book" design previously)
The only thing that makes this design at all suspicious is the use of one Cthulhu eye on the author. The visual element of one changed eye is one Jimiyo has used in other designs before, though, so there's no reason to think it was inspired by Francavilla's design.
I can see why some people would be suspicious, but after looking at all the available evidence, I don't see it as a compelling argument. In art, some themes are hit on a lot, and there's bound to be some degree of repetition. That does not always mean anything was stolen, and in this specific case I don't believe anyone did wrong.
zerobriantsaid 33 weeks ago
great minds think alike :D
tiinsaid 33 weeks ago
You can either take this opportunity to learn from someone more knowledgeable than yourself or continue pretending like you know everything.
alexyamosaid 33 weeks ago
Spiralmindsaid 33 weeks ago
L_Shadesaid 33 weeks ago
In any case, I ordered the shirt, I am looking forward to it.
GGRIMM69said 32 weeks ago
Prefect01said 32 weeks ago
LOL you signed up to start a movement in order to support your art by accusing teefury of stealing yours. How pathetic...
Mojohsaid 31 weeks ago
Thanks Teevil and crew ... and the artist of course ;)
ceridwindsaid 29 weeks ago
Yerac13said 18 weeks ago
AlainaFsaid 8 weeks ago